So sorry. The free mini-course Why Animal Emotions Matter is closed. It was available for a few weeks, and reached thousands of people and their animals across the globe!
Here’s what some of the students said:
- Donald: all of Sunday was dedicated to immersing myself in each video, taking tons of important notes and then re-watching them all again.
- Jessica: the 4 day class you offer has altered the course of my life, my entire life! My life with my horse, my dog’s, my marriage, my work, mentally and emotionally… everything.
- Vida: This is really wonderful – priceless knowledge.
- Jude: 4 videos and 37 pages of notes later, I know I am going to need a much bigger notebook for the full course!
- Anna: First, let me say this: the content of the first video is not new to me. Yet, the way you’re talking about it… WOW!
- Παράσχης: What a pleasant surprise !!! The video was magnificent! I didn’t expect to find something so good for free.
- Suvi: I just wanted you to know how REALLY IMPORTANT work little ol’ me thinks you’re doing.
- Anne: Watching your videos lit a fire in my soul that felt snuffed.
- Sonia: Your free mini session made the information more understandable with a few ‘ahhhhh I get it now’ moments.
- Magda: Amazing training series.
Don’t worry, I give these free trainings about how emotions impact animals’ behaviour, personality, social skills and wellbeing once a year – you can always attend the next one! Just sign up to get notified about it, and I’ll also keep you posted on blog posts, free webinars and courses, all about animal behaviour, learning and welfare.
Also, you could check out one of the previous versions of this mini-course, called The Fundamentals – handling emotional states in animals. The first part is free!
First, let me say this: the content of the first video is not new to me. Yet, the way you’re talking about it… WOW!
As for arousal, my two dogs get very excited (irritably excited – jumping and barking) on two occasions:
1. When we get home from work/school – the best way to calm them down is to ignore them and just come into the living room, then sit and greet them; makes them happy but there’s no jumping or barking any more.
2. When they hear they’re going to the woods, they just go crazy. So far, not very successful with that. Nothing seems to work.
Anna
glad you enjoyed it, Anna! 🙂
Have you thought about what stimuli announce going-to-the-woods? Since emotions infect backwards, you may want to reduce the infection, so to speak, by being as unpredictable as possible in how you prepare for those types of excursions. THat way, at least, that level of excitement doesn’t have to escalate over several minutes during the preparation stage.
The stimuli are: the car keys and a bottle of water. I don’t even have to say anything. I try to surprise them sometimes (by just going to walk outside and then heading for the car) and it works fine. But I don’t want to be sneaky every time. I know I went wrong somewhere, not sure where… hope to learn it from your course, Karolina.
Hi,
Can you practise using those stimuli and it not resulting in a walk in the woods? For example put on shoes, pick up keys and go watch tv? Or fill water bottle, pick up keys, have a shower? In this way the stimuli will not always lead to the most exiting and expected activity.
Hi Karolina,
Thank you ever so much for you free online mini workshop. I’d love to enrol and dig deeper into animal emotions. Unfortunately our exchange rate is indeed financially prohibitive. I also realise the course begins today and applications for the bursary you are kindly offering ended last night.
GLad you liked the free course – and glad you could sort it out to join us! 🙂
Our dog is very friendly but sometimes he lunges and growls at other dogs when he is on the lead . Also He is a Pets As Therapy dog,but My partner and I can pick him up but he snarls and and snaps at the air. Is there something I can do to stop both of these behaviour?
About the growling, have you checked out Grisha Stewart’s BAT protocol? https://grishastewart.com/bat-overview/
It sounds like he needs additional training before being assigned as a therapy dog – not all dogs are good candidates for those types of situations, and a snarling and snapping dog may have the opposite effect to the intended one…
I have a mare who is very easily moved to her fight og flight mode because of earliere experiences. I have had her for almost five years now and finally I am able to overrule some of her responses and learning her new ways.
Procrastination is one of my favourite words, hahaha!
Ona of my dogs, a female chocolate lab of almost 2 years, enters a state of high positive arousal in two situations: meal time and when she sees another dog. It is capable of doing absurd and uncontrollable things like gazelle jumping on the beds, sitting and lying in an endless loop, barking or hunting the cats.
At the other extreme, high level of negative arousal, I have seen many reactive dogs that I treat, either towards people or towards dogs.
yeah, I clearly should have double checked the spelling before going on camera..! 🙂
great examples (and not so unusual, I think). What do you do to help reduce some of the arousal? 🙂
In the case of my dog I have started to give the food at another time, to eliminate the predictors of that event and reduce anticipatory excitement. In that other moment I have changed the signals and I am practicing foundation calm behaviors before to administer the food.
To greet other dogs I apply the Premack principle, rewarding the calm behavior (lying down) with the behavior of greeting .
In the cases of reactive dogs, it depends on the cause of the behavior, but initially I apply a structured phase protocol. The first phase is always a period of stress relief, with privacy of the trigger stimulus and avoidance of stressful events. This period lasts a month or more. During the same I attempt that the dog do activities that he likes and that increase his positive emotional state, and that the owners practice foundation calm behaviors with positive reinforcement. Subsequently, when ready for learning, DS and CC protocol.
interesting protocol – thanks for sharing! 🙂
Thank You. I have had horses for nearly 50 years. 2 years ago jeg got an 22 years old mare.
she is spooking over and over again, ( it makes me nervous) and she dont like to be ridden. I am nearly giving up on he – yes she is old but still looking god and strong.
best time for her is beeing on the field with her horsefriend.
I can’t please her with titbits, and I don’t know what to do.
(never met at horse like this before)
Dorte, I would advice you to seek professional help. There could be a multitude of things going on, and although you may get some insights from video 4 in this free training, it’s probably not enough. I know that the HorseCharming group on Facebook has both some free advice and can also help with consultations – they’re really good horse people. https://www.facebook.com/groups/HorseCharming/
Hi Karolina
Just watched your first video. Thought I’d share with you about my dog training class.
I took my dog as a youngster to ‘dog training ‘ to teach basic recall , sit, wait etc. Unfortunately he was attacked by another dog during the training session. After this time he would not comply with training commands at the venue but be completely reliable elsewhere. Your matrix explains well the reason for this! Thanks!
great example – thanks for sharing! I hope that fear didn’t generalize to too many other situations..!
Hi! My experience with negative scary behaviour was with my 4 month old puppy who we were taking out for a walk and someone lit some firecrackers, he was so scared that he started running and was not listening to anything we said or did, he was really scared and ran home as fast as he can even when he was on a leash. This resulted in a dog who is really scared at New Years eve and when there is a heavy rain with lightning. We have another dog which was in the same situation and she is not scared at all. Can anyone give me some advice as if New Years eve is not that far away.
Sorry to hear about your struggles. One-trial learning isn’t unusual when it comes to fear, unfortunately.
I wrote this resource about everything we know that helps with noise phobia in dogs: https://illis.se/en/nine-ways-to-reduce-firework-and-thunder-phobia-in-dogs/
We had a similar situation with our dog. Fire crackers, running off into a car. Since then all loud noises and shooting sound scare him dramatically. Around New Year we cannot really go out anymore. He is now 7 and whenever there is a storm, we turn on the TV and close all window blinds, which helps but does not eliminate the fear. He would not play, take treats or react to anything we say.
I am happy for any tipps.
I update this blog post a couple of times a year, it contains just about all we know about noise phobia and dogs..! 🙂 https://illis.se/en/nine-ways-to-reduce-firework-and-thunder-phobia-in-dogs/
Thx!
Can we have a matching bibliography to capture the root research that you are basing your concepts on?
Here’s the Core Affect Space: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2010.0303
What I discuss about Classical Conditioning is called Conditioned Emotional Responses, for instance: https://www.psywww.com/intropsych/ch05-conditioning/conditional-emotional-responses.html
Animals “becoming stupid” at high arousal is called the Yerkes-Dodson effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerkes%E2%80%93Dodson_law
Specifically with horses, I often have a problem with some horse owners that ‘assume’ a specific treat will be high value. But there are some horses that simply have a low value for the normal carrot/apple. Instead of seeking alternatives until they find one the horse considers high value, they continue using low value treats and then wonder why the learning process is taking so long. 🙁
In roughly 40 years of working with horses all over the world, I have never experienced the ‘too excitable phenomena for optimum learning’ that couldn’t be easily redirected and calmed.
Great presentation!
Interesting, but perhaps not so surprising, that they’d be species differences. What about highly aroused unpleasant emotional states? Also manageable?
As always, I am excited to watch and listen to your presentations! There is always something to learn! You mentioned wanting to hear about animals becoming stupid. I am attempting to unravel the reasons behind a dog who is engaged but when suddenly assaulted with scents or odors in the environment, and * must* follow them. Is this what might be a fixed action or modal action pattern? Until he completes tracking, he is 100% fixated and is seemingly “deaf” to everything else in the environment. Thank you for always sharing your knowledge and for inspiring me to stretch my thinking!
hmm… no I wouldn’t call that a FAP, that usually involves a specific set of actions – and this might be really variable. Rather extreme focus and low distractibility…!
Impressively clear presentation, thank you! I like theory and here are 2 examples of different behaviour from my nearly-3 year old neutered male dog to fit into the “space”. Example 1 is, sadly, recurrent : he reacts in fear-aggression to unfamiliar male humans entering “his” territory. Low growl, spine curved, tail down (I have a routine to manage that, but it’s stressful for me to have to deploy the routine every time a man comes in). Example 2, I was at the dog park, watching him playing with his ball among other dogs (he is not fear-reactive to dogs). One dog had been bugging him, so after a few minutes, my dog chased him away with 3 resounding barks, then returned to chewing his ball contentedly. In example 1, he was definitely in the top left quadrant and didn’t know how to exit the quadrant. In example 2, he moved under his own initiative from the top left to … not sure where on the diagram, but a better place anyway. Looking forward to learning more about exiting the top left!
Glad you liked it! If it’s a predictable reaction, you may want to do some training to help reduce that – check out BAT with Grisha Stewart: https://grishastewart.com/bat-overview/
You put your finger on a contradiction that has always confused me. The confusion for me is that with an over- cautious dog, some trainers say that you will build self-confidence by taking charge (so the dog doesn’t think he has to take charge – and that is certainly what I aim for with the visitors issue, my example 1). Meanwhile other trainers say that you build confidence by giving the dog opportunities to make his own decisions, which I feel is what he did in the park (my example 2). His attitude to other dogs is almost never confrontational, but that particular one had been bugging him, so I felt his answer was appropriate. Wrong?
In this case one might wonder how those different trainers define “self-confidence”..? What does it look like – which behaviours does a self-confident animal show? Their answers may explain why they offer different solutions.
I train the family horses a lot from the ground. Sometimes they just think it’s so fun much fun that they forget what they’re doing and just bounces off. Sometimes my horse uses her default behaviour instead of well, anything, because she’s just too into hat we’re doing.
I have a question, I perceived the lower left corner of the quadrant as a place that in the long run will turn into learned helplessness, is that correct?
I’m really used to the + and – punishments and reinforcers, but I still have bit of a hard time understanding them, probably because what is a punishment for the horse might be a reward for me as a trainer. So hard! It felt a bit easier when added to the Core Affect Spaces.
absolutely, I’d put learned helplessness in that corner.
good point about what might be punisher for one individual may be a reinforcer to another. It might help if you start by identifying the behaviour, and then asking whether it diminishes or is strengthened (that will tell you whether it’s reinforced or punished). Then you ask whether something was added or removed – that will tell you whether it’s positive or negative. Hope that helps! 🙂
Exacerbated when on-leash (normal), my 6 yr old female Great Dane goes ballistic at the sight or sound of anything outside our chain link (sees through) fence, and sound outside the house (we covered the windows). Once she hits the “stupid” zone, which can happen in a second, she’s not aware of anything/one else. She’s doing her ‘guard’ job, but I am still searching for a way to teach her to stop when asked. Tried treats to associate with triggers, can’t cover the big fence, continuing with “show me — thank you — we’re good —- that’s enough” . The only way this is, at times, successful is when I start to walk towards her; she hops away from fence/window and scoots (happy tail). She really seems to hesitate weirdly; she loves going in the car. In the morning she gets a car ride to a huge field and forest area where she runs and frolics – fun to watch. But, to get her to the car – she’ll lay there barely acknowledging the happy voice “car”. Then, the jingle of her collar may get her head raised. But, come down the hall and she’ll pay attention and get up. These two examples seem to say these aren’t high value enough to increase arousal (eustress) although the results are her favourites. Is she just more inclined to stay in Low Arousal (Great Danes aren’t known for energetic personalities !) ??
Thank you !
… maybe those events haven’t been infected with the “happy bug”? In other words, in her mind they’re not reliable predictors of going-to-the-forest area..?
About reaching through to an animal who is in “stupid” mode – that’s really difficult and maybe impossible. I can think of a couple of ways: one would be to eliminate or remove the stimuli that are causing the overstimulation, or to train her to respond differently to those stimuli by changing her emotional reaction to them – by exposing her to low-level versions of the stimuli, and using counterconditioning with something that is associated with lower arousal, such as food or gentle touch. So that those stimuli become predictors of massage, say…
Thank you for your quick response !
I’m 99% sure she knows the predictors of quite a few things. Her behavior, in human terms, is like “Oh…now they’re serious”. A good example of this is after she has asked to go “outside” and starts sniffing and pushing her ball. At one point, I say “well, that’s enough – into the house” and THEN she starts looking for a potty spot !
My large 2 yr old GSD/Malamute mix has been in bottom left Quadrant of Core Emotion since getting him at 11 weeks. His favorite reward is getting back in his crate. Fearful & lethargic. He has bitten several dogs in the face when they surprise him with their appearance. He was thrown out of basic obedience class even though he didn’t connect with the rushing female puppy, but because he is so fearful.
Never growls or barks. Not motivated by food. Sits in crate next to full bowl for 20 min, then gobbles it down quickly. He is always counting the treats (that he doesn’t like) that I give to the pack to assure he is not being cheated. He has bitten one old pack member twice, demanding the old one spit out what was in his mouth prior to the big bully even came into the room to collect the treat he doesn’t like.
He has air snapped at my face for not removing another dog from couch next to me so he could get there and then immediately tried to stare me down. (I calmly crated him.)
Has punctured neck of his same age female playmate Kelpie thrice, (but she does play by dragging his lazy self forward with her teeth on the side of his neck.)
Very sound sensitive/fearful, low arousal, rarely joyful. Fearful, yet domineering over other dogs & even me.
He had swelling of legs & went lame after combo vaccine 18 months ago. Emergency vet did joint aspiration & treated for pasteurella multicoda.
He’s depressed, fearful & occasionally aggressive. Think I need really good bloodwork done?
Susan, yes, I’d get him checked for health issues, and talk to a behaviour consultant about how to best help him.
This concept is not new to me as we covered it in college when I was going for my degree in special education. I have told many that training children is not much different than training dogs.
I have had a couple pups, both male, who did not train well with treats. When they realized treats were involved they lost their minds and were too excited to concentrate on learning. I used lots of praise instead. The first pup grew in to a phenomenal show dog earning multiple titles. The second pup, which is the son of the first, is working on his show career. I am trying again with the treats since he is a little older. He is doing much better.
I have a dog who doesn’t like other male dogs. When we go for a walk I must make a distance to the other dog and then he can cope with it. If I´m not obs at the enviroment at there suddenly is a male dog close to us his arousal turns very high and he is bekomming aggressive and total out of kontrol. He is getting very insecure when they come too close.
Great learning ? my dog, Dash, has always been anxious outside, this has then generalised to all dogs and people. Working hard on calmness, enjoying being outside and disengagement from scary things. Hoping to learn even more!
Thank you ?
I have a 4.5 year old male golden which I am training to do canine freestyle. He knows many behaviors and does well at home, but in any competition or competition like environment has one of 2 reactions, either shuts down (stands still ) and hears no cues whatsoever or just runs off to any one around or just away from me. He is a very sensitive dog, so I’m thinking that he goes into high arousal and just wants to get out of the situation. Could be too much stimuli, could be sensing my nerves, or something else. He is very environmentally affected. I am looking for ideas to keep him in the low arousal area and able to handle the environment. Your first video continued to help me understand the issue, hoping for more insight and ideas to help him be more confident and content.
Hi Karolina,
Very good videos as always, and thanks again for sharing.
I do have some doubts: I really woudn’t place the P- at the bottom left side (unpleasant/calm) because there are some P- that really drive animals to the top of unpleasantness and excitement: example, take a horse away from his herd, take a puppy away from hi mom – these are some of the most aversive punishments and they are P-.
Coincidently, after I first saw this wellbeing chart of yours which I really liked and found very helpful, I tried to make sense of it with respect of learning, confort, caution and danger, attaching the four Behaviorist laws, and find the bottom-right as the confort zone (usually full of R+ maybe some mild R- and social learning), top-right as the learning zone (with mild R- and lots of R+ and also with lots of cognitive larning, out of any behaviorism, like free exploration), bottom-left as the cautious zone (with R- and mild C+ and C-) and top-left as the danger-zone, also the non learning zone (with C- and C+). I really couldn’t find a correspondance of one C or R to one cuadrant. I’m a little confused… what have I missed in my description?
I’d appreciate your anwer, if posible at my e-mail (I can’t find my comments here after I post them 🙁 ), and thanks in advance. I’ve learnt so much from you.
Respectfully,
Prof. Dana Ignat
EEE – Clicker TRaining México
Dana, great points about some effects of P-! To some extent I think it might be the difference between short-term and long-term effects, and also to some extent whether we’re actually removing or adding stimuli. Social separation might be removing social companions, but adding novelty (and that would make it P+ in some respects)… 🙂
What is the abbreviation C in C+ and C-? 🙂
Will mail this, too.
Thanks so much for your anser and I’m sorry, I didn’t realize I used the Spanish abraviations: C is actually P! I’m not sure I understand the short vs long term effects’ relevance. Anyway, removing a horse from his environment (if the environment is a positive one: a place with more horses roaming relatively free, like a Paddock Paradise or so) is first a P-. After it, one can add novelty or routine but, again, these could be gratifying or aversive. Usually, if the trainer doesn’t work with R+, it’s aversive ’cause they must be working with pressure. That would be the P+. But the animal would associate the separation anxiety to the closest action: removal of/from the herd (that is P-). If we consider the large variety of P +/- and the fact that they are intimately related to the R-, then all of them will appear in all cuadrants (having different degrees). An example of P+ in calm-pleasant (bottom right) cuadrant: a colt is mildly pressed to move by his mom or dad – adding pressure is a P+ but that would be more like a signal pressure. Yet the colt doesn’t move immediately, which will make the parent apply some more pressure, which is again a P+, released when the colt is moving, which is an R-. Of course, it’s a natural situation where we can see these laws applied. In training too we can apply such mild pressure and it still is, cientifically speaking, a P+. Yes, a good trainer will stay in the two cuadrants at the right but, we do have all four laws, indirectly, because we’d have the R-. Whenever we have the R- we do have both P +/- too: We go for the horse at his paddock and remove him from his positive environment (P-), we add some pressure in our training (P+), we remove pressure when the horse does what we ask for (R-). When we work with R-, we actually have P +/- too, implicitely. Could we say that there’s a dominant law for each cuadrant, that is mostly present there, without excluding the others? Although… the top left is always full of both P + and P-, and the bottom-left looks like P +/- and R-.
Those who train based on high pressure and submission, use both P+/- (the breaking horses horsemanship that would be in the top left). Those who use the so called Natural Horsemanship would be in the bottom-left cuadrant: they base their training on the R- (still use pressure as in P+ but milder and then remove as in R- but the horse won’t like it too much, so removing him from hi environment turns into a P-). The modern traienrs using a mixture of R- and R+ or mostly R+ would be on the right (up and bottom). I feel that the difference is more in the methodology one uses and the degree of pressure, ’cause the 4 laws are present in all cuadrants, in different ‘amounts’.
One more observation: someone told me the removal from herd is not a P- ’cause it doesn’t modify behavior. Maybe it is not used with the intention to modify behavior but it does modify it: if the horse perceives removal as unpleasant (a P-) and if we remove the horse when he plays with others, at some point, he’ll stop playing thinking his playing causes removal. Again, if he perceives removal as unpleasant and he is eating when we remove him, he’ll stop eating and/or be on a constant watch for our coming to his enclosure and will stop eating when they see us coming, thinking eating is the cause of their removal. The last action before removal, even if repeated only twice, will tend to be modified because it is associated with the removal. Of course, people are not aware of the modification in behavior if they don’t intend to modify it but our intentions are not always matched with the results!!! We don’t remove horses to modify a behavior they might show within their herd or in a stall – we remove them to take them to the training roundpen. But the horse is not aware of our motives – he just sees the effects and tries to make sense of them in his own way. The fact that we don’t intend to modify a behavior doesn’t mean we don’t modify it. We often train animals unintentionally. Actually, I think we’re more effective in this kind of training!!!
Thanks again for your answer and the great videos!
Dana
You’re making a good point in that there will be minute movements within Core Affect Space in different directions depending on whether the change in stimuli is aversive or not.
About the correlation between P+/R- I’d say that they’re not always associated. Often, but not always – if we follow the modern definition specifying that behaviour must change – we might argue that one behaviour might be negatively reinforced (shown more often) without a parallell diminuation of some other specific behaviour. If we follow Skinner’s definition, they are though, since he defines a punisher as a stimulus that works as a negative reinforcer. But behaviour will change through R+ – some other behaviours must diminish in order to leave room for the reinforced behaviour to expand – and not necessarily because they’re punished.
Thanks so very much – I’ll have to give your comment a great deal of thinking 🙂
🙂 a bit hard to convey in dense writing, sorry!
Thank you very much for sharing your video. I’ve had quite a few experiences with my dogs not responding due to high arousal (both negative and positive). My reactive one easily gets into a frenzied state when seeing another dog and then I can’t “reach” her. I’m getting better at managing/avoiding such situations, but I’m still sometimes puzzled, because she is not consistent in her reactions, so to speak. She will initially always lunge at another dog (both when she is on and off leash) and then she might try to scare him off (usually) or she might try to interact (occasionally). In any case, her first reaction looks scary, both to me and to the other dog. In such situations she is always aroused, that is for sure, but whether because of fear or joy, I must admit I’m not sure. Or possibly both? I’ve come to a conclusion that she’s a bit conflicted (don’t know if that’s possible:)
I think they can absolutely be conflicted..! The trigger might be both interesting and scary at the same time..! 🙂
Thank you for the well presented video.
I am a Nose work instructor, an example of positive high arousal state where the dog gone into “stupid” mode is I see some dogs (mainly Labrador or Golden) coming to the class where the high value food is just too high for the dog and that it “forget” a previously known task. But when we switch to a slightly lower value food, the arousal come down a little and it become a more optimal arousal state for learning. Same for some toy reward dogs where you have to switch to food reward.
great examples, thanks for sharing! 🙂
Our 3yo (approx) rescue staffy/greyhound (plus a few other breeds mixed in), is the perfect obedient pooch at home. We go to group training, where he is quite impressive and obeys all commands and never tries to go to the other dogs. THEN comes the pack walk and all cards are off the table, he screams, pulls, bites at his lead, redirects to me at times, is in a total state of panic with the same dogs he has just spent 45 mins with. On our walks he doesn’t pull on the lead and is lovely to walk until we see another dog. If he is not allowed to see if that dog is friendly the same screaming, pulling behaviour starts. I have trouble holding him, very hard to move him on as he is so strong. He is very friendly to dogs he is allowed to meet. He doesn’t respond to food, words or touch in these situations. He has only been with us for 4 months.
Your’e not alone in this, I think! I would consider ways of counterconditioning walks, or trying BAT. https://grishastewart.com/bat-overview/
I really appreciate your description of core affect space. I work with shelter dogs and have seen everything on the spectrum.
Thanks! I really learned from your clarification of the concepts around reinforcement!
As for “stupid”in high arousal….here’s an example. My normally calm and clever Golden Retriever completely looses his ability to respond to the simplest cue when in the presence of a stranger carrying wonderful new “treats”! On our walks, other dog owners often want to give him a treat. That makes him so excited that he will jump up ( which he seldom does) and then act deaf to any request to sit or down! I would like to carry a sign saying “do not treat this dog!”(LOL). Actually, I have managed to train my friends not to treat him until he is calmer. But strangers seem to think it’s “cute” when he jumps up!
ah. Good point. Despite your best training efforts, other people may ruin your plans by reinforcing unwanted behaviour… “hey dog, you’re so cute when you jump..! Here, have some attention, and treats too!!”
Hi Karolina,
I love Sighthounds and I was wondering if you had ever heard the term “Zoomies”?
This is when the dog is just so happy/excited that it chooses to run at full speed in circles!
It is wondrous to behold but because of the high arousal leading to STUPID there is a high risk of injury!
(I did this free course last year and am so pleased you’ve offered it again.)
Thank you.
zoomies, yes. I haven’t lived with any dogs, but my cat certainly did that, too! 🙂
My class of puppies who graduated on Monday night was, as you can imagine, full of excited young dogs who just wanted to play and have fun. We worked on several calming techniques as well as a few husbandry necessities for these dogs. We had fun with tricks and all was going well over the 9 week course. Except for one little spaniel mix. Let’s call her Annie. Annie is full of beans and gushes with enthusiasm to greet dogs and people alike. Her guardian, let’s call him Fred, was a little frustrated by her behaviour but learned to understand that much of Annie’s behaviour was puppy behaviour and that with effort he would be able to manage it and teach Annie how he would like her to behave. What happened was that Fred had great success at home with all of the new behaviours he was to teach Annie. However, out in the class environment Annie was so full of the joys of spring – the excitement of dogs and people and food that she was totally unable to concentrate on anything that she had mastered at home. This was of course very frustrating to Fred who felt embarrassed by Annie. Instead of sitting, Annie would run in circles around Fred. Instead of loose leash walking, Annie would bounce up and down, stop dead or pull like crazy. At home she walked beautifully on the leash and was now managing short street walks without pulling. In class – nothing. She was just too aroused by the sights, smells and events around her.
ah, I think many of us have seen the Annies! And the Freds..! 🙂
Hi Karolina, I’ve enjoyed your introduction video and look forward to the next few as well. I’m also exploring the other content and references on your website. So thank you for the pointers – very clear and easy to remember the content you present!
I’m interested in whether you would define the removal of positive attention as a negative punishment? My 4 month old puppy is a little too bouncy and still nippy at times when she wants to encourage me to play outside. I’ve been discouraging the teeth contact by turning my back and disengaging. I then encourage positive playing (with toy and no teeth on me!).
By the strict definition, is this a negative punishment? Or something more neutral? Thanks for your thoughts!
The definition has to do with the effect on behaviour. If turning-your-back leads to less teeth-contact, then yes. If not, then no. And some may even argue that turning-your-back might be a cue to offer other behaviour, in which case it would perhaps still classify as P-, but not involve any negative valence emotionally.
Very nice presentation, thank you. I’m looking forward to the next one!
For my dog the presence/sight of/chase of wildlife make her overly excited and not able to listen her otherwise very well taught (with positive reinforcement) and understood recall or other cues. Very difficult challenge to overcome as training with wildlife cannot be arranged, as at least my dog can differentiate between these situations and other training.
I have worked in animal rescue for many years, mainly with dogs and have had numerous reactive ones so what you have said here today is not new to me but it is by far the best description I have heard of how arousal affects an animals ability to learn.
I have recently adopted a toy poodle called Maya from a local shelter and she is by far the most reactive dog I have ever encountered. I believe she has been caged for most of her life and her reactivity is fear based. She will bite both people and other dogs and is particularly bad around men and children. When something frightens her she chooses fight rather than flight and when she is in this state nothing can get through to her. Not even food. My problem is keeping her calm enough and everyone around her safe so that they don’t get bitten , so that a positive experience can be made from the situation. She reaches an aggressive state so quickly that all you can do is remove her from the situation which is making training very difficult. She is better in the house but if a stranger enters you need to get them sat down and have them ignore and basically not move while she calms down. If they give her some treats she will calm down and go to them but if they move or try to get up they are in danger of getting bitten. I use a muzzle with her most of the time, she is muzzle trained so doesn’t mind it but she is smart and tends to know she is going into a situation which she won’t like. My main aim of taking this course is to learn how to stop her getting to such a high state of arousal in the first place so that I can start to train her to associate the situation with something pleasant, in her case treats! She has not had a very good life up until now and has suffered a great deal of mistreatment so I understand her problems with trust and anxiety with people. I know it will take a lot of patience to change how she feels but she is also very sweet and funny when she does relax and that it will be worth every minute.
Thank you for opening this course to us for free.. I’m looking forward to the next video.
QUite the challenge! Have you considered seeing a veterinary behaviourist? Perhaps medication along with a behaviour modification program would be helpful for you.
She is yes but she has come a long way already and I know in time we can resolve the majority of her issues. I am actually half way through my diploma in canine psychology and behavior so have great support from my school in her rehabilitation. I haven’t considered medication no but maybe that would be worth discussing with my vet. Great advice thank you
Thank you for very interesting information. I thought I would share, my rescue dog was a hunting dog who was dumped and abandoned and left to starve. He seems to be a bit stupid sometimes but he is actually very scared of people and new dogs. His nature is actually pretty laid back though once you get to know him. He reacts to dogs by freezing them barking and lunging. I am working on avoiding the freeze part because he then stops interacting with me. I am interested in the fact that children used to make him freeze and cower. He was terrified. Now he has started to bark instead. I’m not sure if that’s a good sign or not? Is he getting braver to react now.
It could be that he’s learned that barking makes children move away from him. Have you tried counterconditioning and systematic desensitization? https://illis.se/en/the-golden-combination-sdcc/
Thank you for offering another free corse Karolina, always more to learn or solidify prior learning. I’m still on a journey with my pup, really focusing on reducing fear inducing stimuli where I’m able, and DS/CC …. everything that I can. I love and must keep in mind emotions bleeding backward-good and not so good
I enjoyed your video and look forward to the remainder of the course. Your question is: Have you seen animals become stupid on high arousal? Give examples. The first example that comes to mind is COWS. Cows are kept in barns for months, moved from barn to barn, into a trailer or pasture periodically. If they are handled in a calm, quiet, organized manner, they will move together as a cohesive herd and will learn where they need to go. They will learn how to load onto a trailer, how to cross a road, how to go between two fence posts with an opening in between. Whooping, hollering, chasing them with vehicles makes them panic. When they begin to panic, they will break from the herd, run in different directions, run into and over things/people, and even get stuck in places they tried to run through. A highly aroused and stupid cow is a dangerous animal! The second example is HUMAN. Sticking with the cow analogy, when my cows get out of their pasture because the grass is greener on the other side, they calmly hang out eating lush grass. The sight of cows out of their pasture, however, creates excessive arousal for my partner. He jumps in a vehicle and begins to chase them (because his IQ has dropped & he forgets that panicked cows are stupid). His intention is to chase them back into the pasture through a wide open gate. He will chase them in circles for an hour before he calls me, threatening to shoot them he is so “aroused”. Upon my arrival and the strategic parking of my vehicle, I can calmly walk with them, gathering them back into a unit, and guide them through the open gate in about 15 minutes (because we’re walking slowly). I hope you found this as amusing as I find it when it happens. lol. I work with dogs that are returned to rescue groups due to reactivity and aggression. They get labelled “red zone” dogs. Calm handling, counter conditioning and desensitization are key to rehabilitation. I have been told I have a calming affect on people, and I count on my ability to move my dogs (cows & men) thru the 4 quadrants to accomplish the task at hand.
haha! Thanks for sharing, yes that did put a smile on my face! 🙂
Very interesting lecture Karolina. I have a question about the mapping of R+, P- in core affect space. You state in the lecture that such elements of instrumental conditioning are defined with respect to the intersection of the axes. How does one define the following scenario? Suppose the animal has been continuously reinforced, has just completed the task successfully, Is the animal expecting to be somewhere in quadrant 1–that the animal’s reference point is not at the axes but a point north east of the origin. If so let’s suppose the trainer has started the transition to intermittent reinforcement. As a result the animal bears the loss of an expected food treat. Isn’t the movement from somewhere in quadrant 1 to a point closer to the origin equivalent to P-? Or should one say that the animal’s reference point after successfully completing the task was at the origin of the axes. Perhaps more clearly put, how does Kahneman and Tversky’s prospect theory map onto core affect space and instrumental conditioning?
Good question. I haven’t seen this discussed at that level of sophistication with regards to animals. Animals wouldn’t be expected to spend time in the origin since there’s more or less always some type of valence to every situation, I was simply trying to illustrate that we might expect movement in the relevant directions relative to the current location rather than “P+ leads to quadrant 4”. So, if the animal is in quadrant 1, he might still be in quadrant 1 after being submitted to a change in stimuli that could result in P+. But relative to the original position he might be in higher arousal and lower valence.
With regards to prospect theory (behavioural economics which suggests risk aversion when a risky choice leads to gains, and risk seeking when a risky choice leads to losses) I’m not sure. There’s huge variability in risk seeking behaviour in animals, depending on whether they’re subordinate or dominant, utilizing a hawk-or dove strategy, and whether they perceive they’re under predation or not. I haven’t seen that discussed within the context of Core Affect Space.
Thank you for offering this free courses. I find them very useful and easy to understand. And I look forward to the next.
We have a working line German Shepard who gets overexcited in training situations. In expectation of getting his number one reward, he starts barking, “screaming “, jumping and defiantly not listening ? to avoid this, we only reward him with food, since this keep him calm enough to listen and work ?? At the end he always gets his favourite reward. So yes, animals can get very “stupid” with out actually being it.
Perhaps, if he enjoys it, you can also try using gentle touch or scratches as a reinforcer? It may calm him down even further…
That’s true, Karolina. And yes, we do have a handtarget which calms him down ?
I have a 1 Yr old cat that I rescued as a 3 week old kitten, and mostly he is wonderful and loving. But sometimes he will attack my hands or ankles. And the ankle attack puts me in fight mode which is not nice for him, or me. I haven’t been able to find what instigates it except maybe time to play, and I fear he has trained me!!? Hissing at him does seem to work but not always. Sometimes he seems to go into a primitive survival place of kill the bunny!!?? He is very inquisitive and I have trouble keeping him off benches and away from food. I do try to just calmly remove him, but it is not very effective. Appreciate this opportunity to find better ways to make us both happier. Thank you
hoho – sounds like the old cat-attacking-the-ankle problem! Listen to Jackson Galaxy to get some good tips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqdnhtMYJ7Q
Thank you so much for this course. I use positive reinforcement in my training (dog and pigs) as much as possible. For example: the pigs get very excited (high arousal) if I open the gate by ‘the train area’. They squeeze themselves to go into the area because 1. there is better grass and 2. that means fun training time with nice treats. To get them out is harder, so by calling them (learned cue = associated with getting food when called) on the other side of their pasture they come very quickly in high arousal. I don’t mind for them getting a high arousal in those times, they still respond (not only on voice cue but because they litterly see the food being trown in the pasture) but it works, I don’t have to add aversives to get them out, because removing myself (-P I think?) is not enough, the grass is better there and is more reinforcing, only not that reinforcing as when I call.
And thankyou for putting this in my mind; that we have to empower them to deal with the little bumps. I notice that my dog is having trouble with this, she is often in her day on the left high arousal side, she has anxiety problems with dogs, cats, sounds and bad associations with many things (we’re working on it). I try to give her more control, get her on the right side, but I notice it is hard and I see that she is struggling to get through the bumps. We are doing brainwork games, giving her choices, using primarly +R for training things, training medical procedures and expressing herself, but it’s a challenge.
I’m excited for your new course! And I hope one day I can follow a paid course, especially if this is only the tip of the iceberg.
im so glad to have come across this free courses,after the first watching the first video,it explains alot about the behaviour of my pets,why i cant make them stop running around when my kids came home from school (with lots of barking)ignoring my command,which is unusual.
so now, ill be more, patient and think of strategy to lessen my pets excitement.
more power to you,Ms Karolina Westlund Ph
God bless you more
glad you got some insights! 🙂
Another interesting lecture. I was expecting greater application of the seemingly highly useful CAS framework. So, if I may, let me push the issue to the fore. In the second video, I think you cover how to get from the distress, and calm quadrants to the eustress quadrant using play. Can play be used to get from the depressed quadrant to the eustress quadrant? And if a dog is already in quadrant 1 but too highly aroused to learn, can one use play, and if so what types, to lower arousal and yet still remain in quadrant 1?
Ah, but the focus of this video series is emotions-and-learning, not CAS specifically..! 😉
Actually, I’d be concerned with going straight from Q4 to Q1 – that might be impossible. A too-fearful animal will not respond to play invitations any more than food, the triggers need to be removed first, in most cases. But going from Q3 (low arousal, unpleasant) to SEEKING or PLAY would be absolutely doable! 🙂
If the animal is in Q1 and too highly aroused, I’d not use PLAY. I’d use treats or gentle touch – more about this in video 3! 🙂
Would love to join your video sessions ?
Great! Just click this link, scroll down and you’ll find the signup form! 🙂 https://illis.se/education/emotions-animal-training-signup/
I would say you could definitely explain the 4 quadrants of learning as some of the people I’ve shared this with will not be familiar. I am also a low vision guide dog handler so found your comment about colour blindness (red green) a little insensitive. I would also encourage you to to research audio description to help explain the images you use. People who are blind trainers are a small but growing minority!
In terms of your question one of the things that has stuck with me over 19 years of Guide Dog handling is that your emotions travel down the lead just as easily as your dogs emotions can come up it.
My first guide dog was around 8 when she developed a fear of shiny floors. This was back in 2008 when the dog community and especially the Guide dog. Community was new to positive reinforcement.
‘Give her some food’ they said when we encountered a shiny floor…. she went that quickly into ‘stupid’ that we gave up!
Talk about a long road (over 10 years) to get me to go down that path again!
Thanks for pointing out that the colourblind comment was insensitive, I will keep that in mind!
I looked up audio description but fear that it’s beyond my budget and bandwidth at present since I’m doing this alone with some technical support from my husband. The way I understand it, I would have to re-edit every video with longer pauses to allow for the description of the visuals, since I’m not quiet for long enough in the present videos, and then have separate audio-description versions of my courses. You’re the first to raise this question with me so I haven’t seen this need before… I do caption all my videos for the hearing impaired, so feel a bit crappy about not doing the same for the visually impaired. Do you know of any good solution?
Interesting comment about the handler’s emotions travelling down the lead to the dog. 🙂
Will share a link to one of my course chapters where I describe the two quadrants – it would get lost here in the comments so I’ll publish it in the course section. Thanks!
I have a dog who has very low impulse control and high stimulus. Feeding time is a nightmare as she wants it and wants it now and can become so stimulated she can reach shrieking point. I have tried many things to change her behaviour. Each one has worked for a limited time and just when I think I’ve got it, she starts to escalate and we’re back to the beginning. She’s knows the sounds and order of food preparation and can maintain control up to a certain point in the chain, which is usually when the lid of a container of an additive is unscrewed or the bowl is picked up. I have had her outside and she runs around in circles but is always at the door at the time of the container being opened or the bowl picked up. I’ve tried changing feed times, pre-prepared in the middle of the day so there’s no predictor of dinner being prepared, used different bowls, put her outside, in her crate with something to chew etc. I tried station training and lay down and relax so she could see the preparation, not see the preparation….. Nope, doesn’t work.
Have you considered engaging her in any foraging activities? Nose Work? Scatter feeding, snuffle mats, puzzle feeders..? Things that require focus and engagement, and pinpoints some of the other parts of the hunting sequence? Draining off energy on long walks..? 🙂
We have a reactive fearful dog that was a rescue. He is 6 years old and we have had him for two years. We have recently moved and have found he is more reactive now towards other dogs and of course more fearful. We are trying to implement counter conditioning, but am not confident we are actually doing it correctly still. At times we see improvement, and other times not. To this day, when we sometimes reach out to him, he will cower a bit as though we are going to hurt him, though we have never/would never do this. He also gets hyper excited the majority of the time – this dog rarely relaxes, so have found even basic training can be difficult with him. We have just started him on an anxiety medication, but have not seen much result after two months on it. I look forward to the rest of your videos and am hoping we learn how to correctly manage our dog’s anxieties.
… it often takes massive repetition, and below threshold levels, to be successful. Did you read the blog post about counterconditioning that I shared with video 1? It discusses some of the most common mistakes people make. Best of luck! 🙂
yes I think we might have slipped over to operant counter conditioning with him – now getting him to “walk nice” for a few steps past the dog and then getting him to sit to give him a treat. He will just have to hear a dog off in the distance bark and he starts looking to us for a treat. Wish we were more confident in what we were doing 🙂 Will go back to counter conditioning and see if his anxiety gets better. I REALLY appreciate your videos – we have been trying to read all we can about this as well too. It is confusing as so many dog trainers do different things when training dogs.
my fear is that we might be “reinforcing ” him to react to a dog in order to get a treat. Will we ever get to the point where we no longer have to treat when we see/hear a dog?
You’re not doing operant conditioning, you’re doing classical conditioning. It’s not see-dog-behave-well-get-treat, it’s see-dog-get-treat. So if the other dog isn’t too scary, and the food is fabulous enough, the other dog should become a predictor of treats. And then your dog’s emotional reaction to seeing the other dog should change, too. That other dog should get infected… and so yes, you should be able to fade out the treats once that fear response has been replaced (and indeed, he might discover that it’s more fun to sniff their butts than bark at them…!)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1556-4029.12626
Some research I was part of that showed the value of play in detection dogs.
I wish I could edit this to make it shorter, but I only have access to the video in this form. I think it displays that change from “silly” puppy our of context and the sudden switch to focus. The good stuff at 17:00 minutes to about 20:00 minutes.
https://vimeo.com/358337150/c9e0c5e8ed?fbclid=IwAR0OvDLRhCdvhgInGjYhXoMLK37RNJEZ31h8K3teElAN9kZvaXCE8Zo2LOM
Again, any cited publications associated with the new video would be appreciated.
Nice video! And thanks for sharing the study, hadn’t seen that. Interesting illustration of the fact that play often isn’t taken seriously. Or wasn’t – I think it’s changing!
Here are a couple of relevant references:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716414/
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-8721.2007.00483.x
http://eprints.lincoln.ac.uk/25221/1/25221%20PhysiologyandBehaviourAuthormanuscript.pdf
https://www.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=qqcRGagyEuAC&oi=fnd&pg=PR13&dq=affective+neuroscience+panksepp%C2%A8&ots=-OM5X1whuA&sig=urIfXEswegOwt6kS-LfO5j2zIYM
Even Panksepp added play last!
I really enjoyed both videos. I tend to use play as a starter and as reward when I train my dogs in agility and rally obedience. When I’m competing in both sports, I always begin with a playsession with the dog, so they feel comfortable in the unknown environment.
In my experience you always get the best relationship with any animal, if you let the animal decide when and how it’s going to you. If you act neutral or play with yourself, most of the time the animal will take contact out of curiosity.
In video 2 you refer to aggression and fear as two different emotions. But I thought most aggression is fear based? And is aggression itself an emotion or just just the behavioral result of an emotion? I also thought that both fight and flight were responses to fear. So again, what is the emotion itself and what is the way in which a particular animal acts in the face of that emotion?
Great question! FEAR and RAGE are two different emotions, they are processed differently in the brain, involve different neurotransmitters different behaviour clusters. But, FEAR sensitizes RAGE, so a fearful animal may very quickly slip into RAGE. And often the treatment will be the same regardless of whether it’s FEAR or RAGE. Remove the triggers, change the emotional association to them, and the behavioural manifestations of FEAR / RAGE will diminish, too.
At least for me, I think the use of the term “rage” instead of “aggression” makes this easier to understand. Aggression feels more descriptive of behavior and rage more descriptive of an emotion- though I know there is a view that we can define emotion as behavior. Thank you!
My 6 year old Jack Russell don’t like other dogs so we avoid meetings . In the wood some weeks ago a woman and two boys about 5-6 years old came with two pugs. The Mum concentrated on
seeking mushrooms. The two small boys were connected to each dog with leash. I and my dog went into a garden to make distance. One boy just followed his dog against us . I told him this was wrong but he was of course too small to take response of the situation and came very fast . Suddenly I had the two dogs around my legs and my dog went totally mad and bite me in my bone. I shouted to the boy to go away. The Mum far away with her mushroom-basket.
Oh dear. I hope you’re OK! This is one of the difficulties when living with a dog: other people..! I’d be very hesitant to let a small child have those types of responsibilities, thinking of all the things that could go wrong – and what a trauma it could mean to the child. And the risk to the animals involved, too, of course.
Just recently my sister and I had a conversation about our own behaviour which I think is an example of the ‘seeking’ discussed in the second video. We both love to read and got to talking about how that behaviour is so rewarding to us that all we have to do is hear that one of our favourite authors is releasing a new title and we are flooded with excitement at the anticipation of seeking out the book.
Yes, great example! 🙂
Hello, thank you so much for giving us access to these lessons! I have a 3 year old BC mix who has a fear of all dogs and most people. She barks, lunges, snaps and really just carries on until we can remove her from the situation, or the triggers passes. She was not properly socialized early in life (my fault for having poor knowledge on the matter at the time) and I’m worried that she is too old now to be socialized and be able to live a “normal” doggy life. We have been doing our best with +R methods but have really only been successfully at management of the issues and not improving on them. Any tips or reassurances that all will be okay?
Hopefully you’ll get some more insights in these course videos. Most dogs can be helped, for sure! Are you familiar with counter conditioning procedures (the link I shared)? Also, check out Grisha Stewart’s BAT technique. https://grishastewart.com/bat-overview/
Thank you so much Karolina for sharing this wonderful content. I have read much about animal behaviour (dogs in particular) and listened to many speakers on the subject, but the way you present the information makes everything just so clear. I will be recommending that all the instructors at our dog training club enrol and watch these videos.
Thanks Gael, much appreciated! Glad you found something useful! 🙂
Quick switch in behavior (with similar arousal states?): Recently working with a reactive/aggressive dog who was cautiously taking in his environment. He saw some swallows and immediately switched in to play/prey mode.
Phred was just at the vets. He was somewhat anxious and asking to leave. I asked him for a few well known fun behaviors, which seemed to change his behavior from seeking (out) to affiliative play.
I use my pups favorite activity–walkies (hunting and sniffing) to back infect vet visits. We always go for a good sniffy walk after the vets!
great examples – and good question! I could imagine going quickly from low arousal to high arousal, but perhaps not from high to low that momentarily..? Unless it’s learned… hmm…
Hi Karolina, I did this course last year but I am so glad you invited me to ‘revisit’! Watching these second time around and pennies started to drop and it all seemed so much clearer second time around! thank you x
glad to hear that! 🙂
Thanks for another excellent webcast, they are always clear and easy to follow. I have shared with others associated with the dog club I go too.
🙂 great, thanks!
Just watched video two.
Love your videos, they always make me think how I spend time around animals.
I realised now that I always try to start of with play – no matter the animal (or person, I find children are much easier to befriend when you play with them).
I do have a question about play: My mare simply never plays, she doesn’t like the company of other horses (and most people) and are mostly fearful when they play. Is there a way to change that? I would love to play with her and let her feel that happiness?
I’d not be too concerned with the absence of play in an adult. Play is crucial for brain development, so if she were a foal that would be disconcerting. If we look at play patterns, most animal species don’t play as adults, with some notable exceptions.
Although I am a dog trainer, I was given the opportunity to start working with the horse that I ride on a weekly basis and so of course started clicker training him. He was, as most horses are, easily spooked by new things and cautious to approach or investigate anything unknown – he would rather flee! With clicker training him to target first my hand and then whatever object was in my hand, he is now targeting items on the ground as well. His SEEKING system is clearly engaged, rather than FEAR and he not only eagerly approaches objects he has become familiar with, but also pretty much anything new in the training area. He will now stick his head into bags to see if there is anything interesting inside, will target anything new and even if he accidentally knocks something over, he just looks at it and then looks at me as if to say, “Okay so where is my carrot/apple/shandy cube”. It is incredible how much more confidence he has now. I believe it is also making a difference on out-rides where he will look at something out of place (unsure, so mildly afraid), but then turn his head to look at me to see if treats are forthcoming, which they always are of course. I think my voice has now also been “infected” a bit with the good stuff, so when I talk to him if I know something “scary” is close by, he seems to cope better passing it and expecting the reinforcement afterwards. The funny thing is whenever I take my phone out to take a photo of the scenery on a ride, he stops and waits for food, because the sound of a zipper predicts treats!
Thanks for sharing – interesting that you see this general increase in confidence! 🙂
I do a lot of jazz up settle down with client dogs (teaching return to low arousal state), but it’s not naturally as quick as the opposite. That makes evolutionary sense–e.g. scary stuff needs an immediate and fast response, but finding the right place to sleep is something you can groove in to slowly 🙂
great point. 🙂
Dear Karolina,
Thank you so much for teaching this important aspects of animal behaviour in your unique clear, calm, well structured and interesting way! It’s a joy to watch, recapitulate and learn!
I would be interested to read more about the research you mentioned at the end of video 2, that even before receiving the reward, expecting the reward already induces the neurotransmitter excretion in rats. Could you provide the authors’ names or a link to the paper, please?
Best
Moni
Here it is! 🙂 http://doc.rero.ch/record/6011/files/tobler_dcr.pdf
Thank you very much!
Has there been any research done that compares the release of dopamine with the use of a clicker (or any other marker) and the trainers voice? I am a huge advocate for using a clicker however; some trainers say that using words like “good” are just as effective.
What we know from laboratory studies is that conditioning depends on the uniqueness of the stimuli that are paired. If you use a spoken word, I would make one up or use a word that’s not used in normal language. THere was one study showing that the clicker was more effective than using “good” – but “good” is a common word that could be used in other contexts. IN another study the clicker was compared to “brava” and then there was no difference.
THat it’s not heard outside the pairing context is one thing, but that it’s exactly the same each time is also important to get maximum conditioning. For this reason I would perhaps use a tongue click rather than a spoken word.
I have a 10 month old ridgeback. He gets very anxious when visitors come over. It is a mixture of excitement and fear – wagging his tail with a stiff upright body & on high alert. Although he hasn’t bitten anyone, I feel he has potential so I’m working on making visitors a positive experience for him. When he hears a knock at the door, he now salivates for treats. I allow him to sniff my visitors once he has calmed down and continue giving him treats & get my visitors to him him treats while they are sitting & under my instruction if I feel he is relaxed.
But last week, he caught me by surprise. He seemed very happy and relaxed to see my Aunty (he’s met her a 2 or 3 times) but she got up from her chair and he got such a fright that he jumped up at her continuously barking in her face. It was a reminder that we have lots of work to do and not to be complacent.
Hi,
I have a question, when a dog enters such a high state of arousal they struggle to learn, what methods can be used to help bring them back down. I work in rescue and come across many reactive dogs who often go past a threshold where they then can’t bring themselves back down or get so stressed they won’t even take high value food. Is there a way to overcome this so they can start taking food as a reinforcer of the behaviour we want (being calm/not reacting to other dogs/people?)
I touch on this in video 3. I don’t work with dogs myself but other things that come to mind would be to avoid triggers, reward calm behaviour in the presence of low-intensity versions of the trigger (when the trigger is fully present is NOT the time to teach..!), conditioned relaxation training, and in some cases medication. And I wouldn’t start with operant counterconditioning (asking the animal stay calm) but classical counterconditioning (just pairing the would-be trigger with a treat). More on that here: https://illis.se/en/one-of-the-5-most-important-words-in-animal-training-counterconditioning/
The positive reinforcement is not a new idea to me, although I really love the way you’re talking about it.
About the animals going bananas – i’ve got a rottweiler “puppy” ( 1 yo now). When he was younger he was getting overexcited about people coming to our house – jumping all over the person, tunning like crazy around the house and acting like he’s deaf. What helped? Asking him to sit and stay away from the door, then giving him some chicken (favourite treat). If he tried to jump, at first we ignore, and when he didn’t stop, he was removed from the room for a while. He could stay only when he was calm. He learnt very quickly that no jumping on guests = good time and treats. Same with jumping on me and my husband to say hello. We ignored him until he calms down. I know puppies jumping and running around are lovely, but i am not sure anyone would like a 45 kg giant to do that 😉
We’re still working on being over-excited when seeing other dogs and walking to the beach (he can smell from very far and know it means freedom and playing in water). So we must still train him to stop pulling like crazy on the leash. I believe with positive training we can make it. Wish us good luck 😉
Sounds like you solved that nicely! Best of luck with the beach training! 🙂
About the third video,
I use the consent test both in my daily life and in clinical practice. I also try to show it to all my clients and friends, both those who live with dogs and cats. A place where it is very necessary to teach and use it is in shelters, because people tend to hug all animals because they believe they are lacking in affection and that this is the best way to provide it, and they fall very often in error of concept with serious consequences.
Ah, the well-intended hug… can have serious fallout..!
On your question about consent test. I do that a lot with our big horse. He loves to get scratches and even comes up to me and asks to get scratched. Sometimes I move away and then he follows me to get more. I sometimes wish he had an “off-switch”. 45 minutes of scratching a 600 kg horse is quite hard :-).
My own horse almost never consents to anything – she just wants food.
great illustration of the huge individual variation! 🙂
Hello I have just finished video one. Which I thought was terrific by the way and makes me want to go onto 2, 3 and 4
You invited comments in regards to whether we have seen Animals malls become “unable to learn” when at the different extremes of arousal people who are the work with animals or have their own have seen. In my case I teach a professional pet assisted therapy program. In addition In addition dogs for the most part have well coming with their own baggage and I now even have one young dog From a wonderful breeder that I am Engaging in and enjoying training with.
My students come into my class in various stages of relationship with their dogs in various stages of training. Pretty much without exception every dog that comes to the first class is highly aroused and excited and that tends not to be a good day for training specifics. We work on informational getting our dogs relaxed and Most importantlyrelaxing ourselves. By the second or third class we start to see big changes introducing the positive reinforcements and rewards and training and focusing seems to skyrocket.
I see similar in my own dogs personally at home. If a dog is frightened if a dog is frustrated if a dog is extremely excited in anyway I find it training and learning is not optimal.
I have worked with a behavior list for a number of years with some of my dogs and we most usually work on bringing arousal down to the level we’re focusing and learning can begin what I like to call when I worked with horses becoming flat-footed rather than up on their toes. No I don’t mind a certain level of energy when it comes to learning. A certain level of energy or eagerness is always always preferred
Thank you for the series
Good point about how the human’s arousal level might have a huge impact! 🙂
Yes I have experience dramatic change in a dog that was so fearful about coming into an obedience class environment, she would not engage with her owner, let alone take treats. I asked my student what her dog loves to do. The dog loved to play fetch and tug with toys. I invited student and dog to the class location out of the context of class and we just played. First the owner with dog, then me with dog. I wish I could remember the details, it was so long ago. The dog’s behavior was so dramatically different, so fast, I was shocked. From that day forward the dog attended classes with toys. She was engaged with her owner, playing, learning, taking treats and feeling confident.
great example, thanks for sharing! 🙂
I use consent test with all my pets regularly, and teach it to all my clients.
We also teach it on our facebook group Dog Training 101!
Thanks for posting!
How about, when they are too excited, just walk away from the door and Sir on the couch until they can down. When you get up of the couch and move to the door, and they get all unglued again, sit back down. Rinse. Repeat. Don’t walk out the door with them until they are calmer.
The Senza Tempo Cane Corso YouTube videos of their alpha female in a pack of Cane Corsos correcting excited behavior helped me tremendously. Overexcitement is not tolerated by the pack leaders. They (roll/ side-submit ‘unstable’ pack members immediately, because over-excitability leads to conflict and fights between members, so the alpha quells this.
Best of luck.
Good point – some behaviours carry a reinforcement history, for instance jumping-at-people-gets-their-attention, so animals have learned to jump at some point. Relearning that jumping-at-people-makes-them-go-away is likely to help with those types of behaviour (especially if combined with four-feet-on-the-floor-gets-their-attention instead).
Animals often behave rather roughly towards each other. I would be very hesitant to mimic such behaviour, as a human..! 🙂
Yes, very true.
I use your strategy many times with client dogs! Giving a reward for “four-on-the-floor” is very useful!
Also, with the side-submit, we are assuming that the animal is either not prone to aggression, or already knows the human who is using this disciplinary technique. A non-pack/herd member may not have that ‘authority'(from the animal’s perspective) to discipline it.
I find that patient & fair are the best policy. One thing that many humans truly lack is the awareness that animals are not constrained by time (unless human-imposed), so I find with dogs, cats and especially horses, play the long-game very well…. small actions, over time, are also are less stressful to the group, plus take much less energy. If we could truly wait for the above dog to calm down before taking them outside for exercise (assuming they don’t have to eliminate in a hurry)… everyone would have a lot less stress. We have so much to learn from animals!
… and certainly the fact that we’re living in a hamster wheel of deadlines and time stress doesn’t make it easier on our animal companions..! Interesting to consider how different things must have been 100 years ago. Or even 30…
VIDEO 3 – I have used the Consent Test on Kuda’s head – nope (headshy ?) !
Believing it to be Consent to “being touched or interacting with me”, I thought that was the full test. I didn’t know you could use the Consent Test to find out where/how your dog likes being touched. Rub on Kuda’s butt, and she performs her “happy bum” steps – loves it !
🙂 the more you observe your animal, the more you learn! 🙂
… and the more I learn, the more I observe – it’s fascinating !!!
In video 3 you mentioned “relaxed body contact” and said you’d come back to it in video 4 in relation to fear. But I didn’t see anything about it in video 4. I have a fearful animal who has recently started initiating relaxed body contact and want to know how best to respond and/or develop this to help her overcome her fear of people.
Sorry that you got disappointed! I’m trying to understand where I said that. I did say that I’d talk about fear, and why it’s important to remember that first impressions last, and fear-inducing stimuli – but I can’t find where I said I’d return to touch in the fourth video.
I did write a blog post about it though, maybe you can get some ideas there? In short: if body contact helps your dog, continue – if not, do something else..! 🙂
https://illis.se/en/dog-owners-to-pet-or-not-to-pet-during-thunderstorms-or-fireworks/
There was a photo of a small black and white dog in video 3 asleep on a lap. That was where you mentioned “relaxed body contact” and said you’d get back to it “in a minute”. It’s at 3.13 minutes.
Ah, sorry. I did get back to the value of body contact, and how to go about providing it – but in video 3, not 4. Sorry if that was unclear! 🙂
VIDEO 4
I believe she is reacting – gone stupid – when body language and intensity of bark are obvious. Sometimes, I am not certain whether I am seeing a “reaction” or a “response”, e.g. my dog has full view through chain link fence. At sight or sound of anything (busy neighbourhood), she begins to bark. Is she doing her guarding job ? Telling it/them to stay away ? Alerting me to their presence so that I can reassure her ?
And, our yard is large; therefore, changing or covering fence is improbable. As a result, this behaviour is “rehearsed” – is it now a simple pattern and not driven by emotion ?
In the house, the windows are covered.
Is there something I can do with her to categorize the behaviour ?
P.S. these videos have added another dimension to my learning about my dog – thank SO much !
Often what starts out as being purely emotional reactions to stimuli get rehearsed and end up in the repertoire as learned behaviours, yes! Often the context will tell you what the function of the behaviour is. MOstly barking is a learned behaviour, for instance: if-I-bark-then-the-lorry/bicycle/dog-goes-away. You may want to teach her that if-I-look-at-mom-I-get-a-treat-and-the-lorry-goes-away instead..! 😉
Once again, thank you very much for your prompt reply.
I feel more confident now about proceeding with – oh, I hope I’ve got this correct – counter conditioning.
best of luck! 🙂
I’ve just finished video 1 and I’m really excited to continue the course. I have a rescue dog and when she was young she was really easy and sociable, but as she got bigger (and no longer fits inside my handbag, so gets out less) she has become more and more difficult. She is very wary of new people, and does not like being stroked by strangers (to the point where she will give a warning nip). She will also do the same to me at random times, we can be sat and if I stroke her in the wrong place or something, it sets her off. Taking her to the vet is an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE. She becomes highly aggressive it can be very difficult for the vet to do anything. Initially I would scold her for being aggressive, but a little research told me that was not the way, so now if she gets into fight mode I try to reassure her in a calm friendly voice that everything is ok, but she still usually takes herself off under the bed to hide. She’s there right now actually as there is a thunderstorm! I’d love her to be less afraid of storms, but that’s not my main priority given the other issues I need to deal with! She’s a sweet girl a lot of the time and it’s just been me and her for the most part, but it’s becoming very difficult. Unfortunately I live in a fairly remote place, and there are no dog training facilities here. I’m hoping I haven’t left it too late to help her, and am looking forward to watching the other videos over the next couple of days.
Hopefully you’ll get some ideas from the rest of the videos. Great that you stopped scolding her – that can be really counterproductive… Perhaps you should also have her checked by a vet to rule out that the nipping isn’t caused by pain or some other medical condition.
I actually believe that the reaction comes from her thinking I’m about to “do something terrible” – like give her an injection or put flea medication on the back of her neck. She’s super suspicious. She can’t remember “come here”, but she remembers the one injection she has once a year! Thanks for making this great resource available to all 🙂
Thank you so much for the mini course.
It’s given me so much to think about and how I can help the many animals I’m struggling with. Ones with fear Aggression and shelter animals with all sorts of problems. That I’m slowly trying to help. But one in particular that I thought would be easy to help is proving difficult. A stray dog recently turned up at our house and has chosen to stay. I thought I would do a little bit of clicker training with him. But his arousal around me is high and if I introduce food it increases. I have tried to reduce it by spending time just being with him and also reducing the value of the food. Using carrots is not high enough for him but using plain kibble is too high. Stumped as to how to get him to sit and go down. For the mean time I’ve just been working on him being calm and then I treat him. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Many thanks again for such wonderful information
Sounds like a good plan. Time is your friend, I think..! Also, if he’s extremely hungry he might be more aroused by food than when not so hungry..?
Oh I’m super happy ? I finally got the boy to sit. I was totally stumped as to why he wouldn’t as yes I know that some dogs take longer than others but was still at a loss to why. Thinking through my head, maybe it’s a medical issue or something else. But having watched your videos it really made me look at other options as to why. And yes it was possible it was a combination of things but one thing I did notice was he was in high arousal. So after a few good meals and time also him knowing that he is safe here and will be fed. And rewarding him being calm we got there. And I thank you again for giving me the knowledge and understanding as to why. ?.
Wow! Well done – and thanks for reporting back, so happy to hear that the course helped! 🙂
I like the consent test. I used it with my old sick dog when I wasn’t sure if she still enjoyed petting. When she was younger she made it clear if she didn’t like something – she just tried to get away. But once she had mobility issues and she got quite a lot of vet treatment and was kind enough to tolerate it, then I couldn’t be sure about her feelings to petting. So I made stops with petting and checked her reactions. And as long as she was reengaging I continued. If she didn’t, I interpreted it that she had enough for now.
sounds like great communication! 🙂
Your videos were well laid out and explained beautifully. Very informative and a animal emotions, choice , controlability and empowerment are a huge interest of mine. I wish the Canadian Dollar was not so bad as I most definitely would take this course.
Glad you enjoyed the videos! 🙂
I always begin sessions with my horses using a consent/permission cue. I use it to begin training sessions, to halter my horses (they self-halter as a consent cue), to saddle them, and to mount them. I also seek consent with daily scratches and touch and have found myself scratching hard to reach places that would not be first spot I’d normally scratch! Giving them a voice has been the most important shift in my relationship with my horses.
That made me smile. Thanks for sharing! 🙂
We often hear that there are fear periods in puppies – times when things that didn’t bother them before suddenly do – and then the fear period passes until the next one arrives. What determines whether they pass through the fear periods unscathed or whether a fear goes beyond the fear period?
I’m not familiar with this research, but my guess would be that traumatic episodes (strong fear reactions) during crucial phases of brain development would have a big impact…
Hi Karolina,
My family raised a litter of feral kittens until there was room at the shelter for them years and years ago. Growing their trust in humans was crucial. I didn’t even realize we were using play, we just did everything we could to build their trust. It was lots of sitting on the floor with shoe laces and other various toys, and just letting them climb on us. This part of the video brought back such wonderful memories for me. Thank you! As for more feline observations, a quick emotional change in my grouchy siamese cat is exactly what happens when I bring out a clicker. I am not his favorite person, and sadly his favorite person moved out several months back. Prior to this event, I started clicker training with him because I felt he needed enrichment and I also needed to practice my clicker skills (my dog has gone deaf). So as a way to hopefully bond with my grouchy and depressed, but very food motivated meezer, I went back to clicker training. The way he looks forward to our sessions is exactly what you described. I become delightful and worth it to him, even if it’s just for those few minutes. I am also noticing a slight swing towards him showing interest in me outside of our clicker sessions. It will be slow going, but his ability to be content in our current situation is very important to me. Thank you for the insight and your spectacular explanations!
Sounds like you’re gonna get there, slowly! Best of luck! 🙂 And I’m glad the course resonated that much with you! 🙂
Hi Erin,
sorry to read that your dog has gone deaf. Hope, that this doesn’t keep you away from doing clicker training. Just use a tactile or visible marker signal to let the dog know what pays off for him.
Thank you for this mini course, i am now motivated to try a different type of tamining with my dwarf hamsters. If I register for the full course will it be applyable to practice with my dwarf hamsters? I have hade several social hamsters before who was easy to tame but now i manage to get 4 rather scared and unsocial individuals. They are 3 months old bought from a breeder. I would so much like to bond with them but they flee as soon as they see me and bite if i try to hold them.
Mikaela, the course should give you confidence to interact with all kinds of animals. But if it’s a training course you’re after, this isn’t it… you’ll find an e-book that I wrote about some key training concepts if you sign up on this page: https://illis.se/en/good-trainer-habits/
Yes to consent-based touch! I always check in with any animal to see if they want to be touched by presenting my hand and letting the animal sniff. If they linger on their sniff, I will offer a touch and see how they feel about it. It been such a game changer!
Hello and thank you for supplying this mini course. It was most helpful and reinforced what we have done with our rescue German Shepherd Dog was the right thing. We found that she wasn’t physically abused as such but handed around from home to home and her socialisation was neglected as well as her general well being. We took her to an obedience club but she became reactive with so many dogs around her that were out of control. It was very hard for her to concentrate and it became worse. We were lucky enough to discover there was a small group of more experienced people who met for informal training so we joined this group and the change in her was exceptional. By taking away the fear of being surrounded by a lot of dogs and just having a few calm, under control dogs was so beneficial to her. She now has her friends in this group that she greets politely and friendly.
So great to hear that you’ve managed to solve that situation! Glad this mini-course was helpful! 🙂
Before I got my dog I haven’t had much to do with them so I was very unsure about his bodylanguage whether he likes being touched/petted or not. So we invented some kind of consent test:
https://youtu.be/6bC6WyIWNTE
(Of course I started petting him again after the end of the video, I can’t resist and he knows it)
He loves to communicate with me in this way so it happens very, very often that he jumps on the couch and starts lifting his paw that way. Or he lies on the floor, tapping as if he is asking for his servants 😉
Regarding the first video, my hypothyroid dog used to be stressed most of the time, putting her into the left quadrants, mostly high arousal. She is much happier dog now. However, when she is high arousal in right quadrant, supper excited and happy about something, her performance (and learning) capacity is quite low, she will start to offer behaviours regardless the verbal cue, so getting a super tasty bone, on the cue ‘voice, you’ll get a sit, lay, a paw and a bark.
Amazing training series. Thank you so much for sharing, Karolina!
Btw, my dog loves going to vet. We take him by car (he loves car trips), then he’s meeting other dogs in the waiting room, and later on is a play session with the vet before she does anything. At the end of the visit ge gets a treat. Unfortunately, it’s more problematic with the cat. He’s ok in the crate, although he’s panicking when entering the vet’s waiting room. He’s so scared that he wouldn’t eat anything. I guess he had some bad experiences before we adopted him. (He was found on the street at about 1yo acording to vet, although it was obvious he lived in a house as we never had toilet incidents and not jumping on furnitures). Do you have any ideas how to work with the cat?
Cat’s are more difficult than dogs. I’ve heard it said that you can get the dog to like to go to the vet, and get the cat to tolerate it. I’d be careful to block out incoming stimuli – get appointment at no-dog-hours, cover the (familiar and beloved) crate so visual stimuli are reduced, use Feliway feromones and visit a cat-friendly clinic. Perhaps catmint, too. And systematic desensititization / counterconditioning too. Best of luck! 🙂
Thanks for tips. I’ll try next time we go to vet 🙂
I really feel much better when my animals are happy and relaxed 😉
Hi,
I really liked your free videos! Thank you very much for sharing this. A question about the normal course that starts om September the 30th: will that be in English?
Patricia, all my courses are in English, and subtitled in English (some have subtitles in Swedish and Polish too, but that’s the exception!)
Wonderful mini-course. The concepts are not new to me. Yet, you have a great gift! Your explanations are very easy to understand for anyone that cares for animals. I wish I could take the master course. Perhaps next year.
I have a question about emotions and body language in animals. It is well known that emotions affect body language, but does it work the other way round?
I’ve read about some research on humans that when we are forced to smile, we start feeling better. I’ve also read about other research on this influence of body language to one’s physiology that was later dismissed.
And I still wonder if there is any knowledge about if it works with animals. If I teach my dog to take a relaxed, happy posture – can it help her to feel this way?
Great question. I would think yes – but it hasn’t been studied, as far as I know…