{"id":7654,"date":"2024-09-29T10:50:29","date_gmt":"2024-09-29T08:50:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/?p=7654"},"modified":"2024-12-30T21:55:33","modified_gmt":"2024-12-30T20:55:33","slug":"sheep-proofing-dogs-in-norway","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/sheep-proofing-dogs-in-norway\/","title":{"rendered":"\u201cSheep-proofing\u201d dogs in Norway"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

There was an article in a Norwegian dog magazine<\/a> (an English translation is in the comments’ section below) this week, essentially claiming that by delivering an electric shock to a dog a single time as it runs towards a flock of sheep, you can stop it from ever chasing sheep again. Indeed, it gets a diploma to show that it\u2019s \u201csheep-proofed\u201d. There are no other ways of teaching this behaviour, the article claims, and also, it suggests that it\u2019s a way to increase the overall quality of life of the shocked dogs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/a>
The article implies that a single shock in a single location is all it takes to make dogs sheep-proof forever.<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Needless to say, this article has stirred a lot of feelings within the Norwegian R+ community.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And for good reason.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Now, I don\u2019t train dogs myself, but reading through it I found I have four areas of concern:<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

\u201cOnly one shock is needed\u201d<\/h5>\n\n\n\n

It is implied that 99% of dogs only need one shock, after which they become \u201csheep-proof\u201d.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

To me this number seems suspiciously low, and I\u2019m concerned about potential whitewashing \u2013 I\u2019d like to see the data supporting that statement.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

To my knowledge, the only published comparison on the efficacy of shock collar training to stop hunting behaviour is from the recent \u201cbanana\u201d shock collar paper (which suffered from major design faults as well as a blatant conflict of interest<\/a> \u2013 however I see no reason to question their findings on the actual shock collar training), in which the average number of shocks on day 1 was 10, and even after 6 sessions on three consecutive days, some of the dogs were still getting shocked in the training arena to stop the chasing behaviour \u2013 even though the intensity of the shock was high enough to cause all dogs to yelp in pain at some point in their training. So even though that study was made on dogs chasing a moving plastic lure rather than live sheep, I would question that a single shock would immediately have such a laser-targeted, generalizable and long-lasting effect.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In other words, I suspect multiple shocks (over multiple sessions in multiple locations) would be needed to teach a solid avoidance behaviour in novel contexts. I\u2019m not disputing that it can be done, but I\u2019m hesitant to the suggestion that only a single shock in a single location would be needed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The \u201cSheep proof\u201d diploma<\/h5>\n\n\n\n

I would also question whether they actually become \u201csheep-proof\u201d, implying that they will never again hunt sheep in any other context, after just one shock in one training session in one location.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Although there is often one-trial learning with aversive stimuli, generalization doesn\u2019t always occur that quickly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

For instance, in the same \u201cbanana\u201d study mentioned above, only 33% of the shocked dogs who had stopped chasing the lure in the first scenario refrained from chasing another lure in a novel location <\/strong>without first hearing the conditioned punisher (the word \u201cbanana\u201d) \u2013 and 33% ignored the \u201cbanana\u201d warning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In other words, I would question that 99% of dogs would stop chasing sheep in novel scenarios after such limited training \u2013 especially given that there\u2019s apparently no warning sound conditioned in the Norwegian shock collar scenario.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In short, that the dogs stop chasing the sheep after a single shock in the training scenario<\/strong> is not a reliable predictor of whether they will chase sheep two years later in a completely different setting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Frankly, unless there\u2019s more training than the single shock during a single session as indicated in the magazine, in my book that \u201csheep proof\u201d diploma wouldn\u2019t be worth the paper it\u2019s printed on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And now, I realize that some of my readers will be going \u201cwait a minute!! We actually do shock the dogs in multiple locations and do the proofing in novel locations where the animal has no history of being shocked, so that diploma is indeed valid!\u201d or \u201cwe actually do the shock training every year and update the diploma every year!!\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That just proves my point. I\u2019m not saying I don\u2019t think it can be done, I\u2019m saying that I suspect that the procedure is being whitewashed in the article, playing down the severity and frequency of the required shocking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Why not mention the potential side effects?<\/h5>\n\n\n\n

But let\u2019s give them the benefit of a doubt for a moment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

After all, I\u2019m not a dog trainer \u2013 I could be entirely wrong about the first two issues I\u2019ve raised.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Let\u2019s say that the outcomes of training with live sheep is vastly different from running after a plastic lure \u2013 let\u2019s say that 99% of dogs actually do become \u201csheep proof\u201d in novel locations after a single electric shock, even years after their original training.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The only way that you would get 99% compliance would be if fear conditioning occurred to the sheep specifically<\/em> \u2013 and not to any other features of the training environment in which shocks occurred. How do we know that that doesn\u2019t happen?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But even more importantly, would there be any known potential downsides, side effects, to this procedure?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Will the dogs really be happy and outgoing, merrily roaming the mountainside off leash chasing all kinds of other wildlife except sheep, and not develop any irrational fears or phobias?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I am rather sure that some dogs would \u2013 and that some wouldn\u2019t.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m sure that some dogs take that single shock in stride and will happily ignore sheep forevermore, confidently trotting along beside their guardian into the sunset.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

As I\u2019m equally sure that some dogs will be more or less destroyed by that single shock.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/a>
We don’t know the proportion of dogs that become shutdown versus are resilient to pain.<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

And here\u2019s the problem: we don\u2019t know how many fall into the first category, and how many fall into the second. To my knowledge, there\u2019s not any data on those proportions, but I will share one case I am familiar with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Eva-Lynn told me: \u201cWhen my dog was young, I allowed myself to be persuaded to use shock training in the presence of sheep so that he would be able to run loose on the mountain. The authorized trainer shocked him when he was happily and excitedly running out into the field with the sheep. He became terrified and screamed, followed by whining and trembling for 3 days. He did not develop a fear of sheep, but I drove back to where we had taken this so-called ‘sheep-proof training\u201d, and he was terrified of that particular field in which the training had taken place. Afterwards, it turned out that he likes to play with sheep including their lambs, and has never been a threat to any sheep! Now he is dead, and I have spent 15 years of my life forgiving myself for what I exposed him to in all my ignorance, pressure from others, and stupidity. I’m still ashamed!\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In other words, whether the dogs learn that it\u2019s the chasing of sheep that is connected to the pain, and not some other factor such as the field where training takes place, or the clothes the trainer was wearing on that particular day, or indeed the presence of a specific person, seems entirely arbitrary.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The trainers are assuming that they\u2019re teaching an operant conditioning contingency (if I chase sheep, bad things happen) rather than an association based on classical conditioning (in this<\/strong> particular situation, in this <\/strong>location, with these<\/strong> sheep, with those <\/strong>people present, bad things happen). I would argue that we don\u2019t know whether the conditioning that occurs is predominantly operant \u2013 or rather classical; most likely some combination of the two.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Also, we can\u2019t assume that there won\u2019t be any potentially really serious side effects, including generalized fear, aggression, apathy and reduced learning.<\/a> For instance, the animal might start showing fearful or aggressive behaviour in that<\/strong> location, with those<\/strong> sheep, when the trainer wears those<\/strong> clothes or in the presence of those<\/strong> people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

To me it\u2019s outrageous that the magazine seemingly whitewashes the technique without even mentioning the potential downsides \u2013 which may sometimes be extremely serious. The title of the article, \u201cshocking dogs improves animal welfare\u201d is highly inappropriate as it might inspire their readers to order a shock collar over the internet to improvise and try to improve their dog\u2019s welfare all on their own. And remind me, are shock collars even legal in Norway? (rhetorical question, the answer is \u201cno\u201d \u2013 their use is regulated to only professionals with specific training, such as the trainer mentioned in the article).<\/p>\n\n\n

\n
\"\"<\/a>
There are at least 20 problems with punishment.<\/a> <\/span><\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n
What about alternatives?<\/h5>\n\n\n\n

Finally, the article dismisses humane ways of training saying \u201cyes, you can teach dogs not to chase sheep with alternative methods but it won\u2019t work for the vast majority of dogs<\/em>\u201d.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

This is simply not true \u2013 you can indeed train most dogs to stop chasing wildlife (and not just sheep but any prey species, other dogs, bicycles or joggers) with kind methods that are fun for the dog.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s not a \u201cquick fix\u201d the way that shock-collar training is outlined in the article, but to suggest that R+ training is that ineffective is misinformation (assuming that the trainer doesn\u2019t know better) or indeed disinformation (that he actually does knows it can be done with most dogs but wants to control the narrative).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/a>
Whether “painless methods to teach dogs not to chase wildlife won’t work for the vast majority of dogs” is misinformation or disinformation, it’s not true<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Admittedly, there may not be any scientific papers (yet) showing successful predation substitute training with most dogs, but I know of several R+ trainers who are indeed successfully teaching the majority of their clients’ dogs (including “high-drive” ones) to engage with their trainers rather than chase various species of farm animals, wildlife, other dogs or joggers \u2013 I don\u2019t know if they\u2019re collecting data for any scientific study, but it wouldn\u2019t surprise me if they were.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

The absence of scientific evidence is not evidence of absence \u2013 this is an evolving field and there\u2019s been a landslide of relevant new publications related to dog behaviour in the last 10 years or so; I expect we\u2019ve not yet reached the peak rate of yearly dog-related publications.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

If I would hazard a guess, I\u2019d say that it\u2019s just a matter of time before such a study were published \u2013 they\u2019re doing the training, and I would encourage the reader to check out their work. I link to the work of several such trainers here<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

To conclude, we know that aversives work to stop behaviour, at least momentarily. In this article they downplay the number of shocks needed, making it sound like using shocks on dogs is a necessarily evil, a small moment of discomfort that opens the door to freedom forevermore.  They\u2019re ignoring the documented risks of using punishment as well as the fact that there are valid pain-free alternatives. As long as reaching for that shock collar is the perceived quick – and only – solution, my guess is that these trainers won\u2019t even bother to learn to use gentle techniques to keep dogs from chasing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

And sadly, now the readers of that magazine won’t either. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

***<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I write the occasional blog post, participate in webinars, masterclasses and online summits, as well as offer extensive online courses, all on the topic of animal learning, behaviour and welfare. If you want me to keep you posted on what I’m up to, just sign up to the newsletter below! <\/p>\n\n\n\n

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There was an article in a Norwegian dog magazine (an English translation is in the comments’ section below) this week, essentially claiming that by delivering an electric shock to a dog a single time as it runs towards a flock of sheep, you can stop it from ever chasing sheep again. Indeed, it gets a […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[21,24,22,20,23],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7654"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=7654"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7654\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":7670,"href":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7654\/revisions\/7670"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=7654"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=7654"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/illis.se\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=7654"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}